The thing is, that has never happened and I doubt it will ever happen. All the torture that is done is just to find out minimal information that holds no immediate threat to the people.
I’m on the fence here. for the most part, I’m all about torture, from the basis of leveling the playing field as anyone else wouldn’t think twice before torturing us.
the real problem is the slippery slope of a government that actually had attorneys, appointed officials, and god knows who else sanction the acts as legal followed by doctors who basically violated their own profession. between the 9/11 nonsense with the patriot act, nsa wiretaps, etc., shit had simply just gotten too 1984ish for our own good.
so while ultimately, I think torture is generally necessary and entertaining, it’s probably a good thing to pull back every once in a while for the good of the domestic public. let’s just send peeps to another country and have our friends torture them while we watch. problem solved.
I’m just irritated with how pussy everyone has gotten after 9/11. All of a sudden, we’re suppose to throw everything we value out the window in the name of “fighting terror”?? How far does it go? Are 19 year old farm boys that can’t afford college the only people that should be willing die for our personal liberties? All of a sudden we have this “do whatever you need to do… just don’t let them hurt me” attitude that is just so pussy it makes me puke.
Not to mention… the most pussy of all people were no where near NYC or DC on 9/11. Also, what percentage of country songs are about America? I was driving from Orange County to LA today and there is a shit load of country on the radio. The lyrics are incredible.
i would hope that everyone can agree that if there’s imminent danger and you know somebody has info, that you’re going to do whatever the fuck it takes to get that info. i mean jesus. it’s called getting the job done. “sorry boss, he won’t give it up. i guess 50,000 people are going to die now. oh well.” i guess some people just fail at their jobs and are cool with that. how could you not do everything in your power to protect life? i guess some people say values are more important than life. I say you’re already dead so shut your mouth.
of course, it should be a last resort. and it should only occur when there’s enough intel to know that the guy is withholding info. and the potential danger caused by not gaining that information would have to be deemed grave. but who knows, maybe it’s ridiculous to ever think that a single interrogation could be so crucial to the safety of innocent lives. Maybe all the intel we’re gaining is crap. If that’s the case, then I drop my argument.
but if you think this administration won’t torture if necessary, you’re naive. sure, they won’t do it as much or with a smile on their face like Bush did, but it’s still a necessary tactic in extreme situations.
yes, the majority of the intel we receive from human sources is generally crap. an army intel guy I used to work with said that in Iraq, people would basically use the US army against their competitors (business, bangin the wife, etc.) and say, “oh yeah, that dude down the street’s a terrorist” just to have the US do their dirty work and get rid of people they didn’t like.
on top of that, intel officers in the field work on quotas and are required to generate a certain number of reports in a period of time.
there are a LOT more fucked-up intel stories I’ve heard, but those two enough should kind of paint the picture that human intelligence gathering isn’t as useful, effective, or validated as you might assume it was.
I’m all for torture. It makes sense. If someone is trying to kill 50,000 as guy suggested and he has info that could stop said killing, then do whatever it takes to get that info.
of course, to wu’s point, there is a lot of bad intel out there so you have to pick your spots, but if “america” is wrong after they tortured someone, its ok, just throw money at them. that is how you solve problems.
(+3, 3 votes)
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
so you have 5 million people’s lives at stake, and could possibly save them by stabbing a known terrorist in the knee while tied to a chair.
hmmm?
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm
The thing is, that has never happened and I doubt it will ever happen. All the torture that is done is just to find out minimal information that holds no immediate threat to the people.
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
oh, here we go…
I’m on the fence here. for the most part, I’m all about torture, from the basis of leveling the playing field as anyone else wouldn’t think twice before torturing us.
the real problem is the slippery slope of a government that actually had attorneys, appointed officials, and god knows who else sanction the acts as legal followed by doctors who basically violated their own profession. between the 9/11 nonsense with the patriot act, nsa wiretaps, etc., shit had simply just gotten too 1984ish for our own good.
so while ultimately, I think torture is generally necessary and entertaining, it’s probably a good thing to pull back every once in a while for the good of the domestic public. let’s just send peeps to another country and have our friends torture them while we watch. problem solved.
April 23rd, 2009 at 9:24 pm
also, watch the whole thing – NSFW? – possibly the worst video on youtube at the moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n77auNQDiPk
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I’m just irritated with how pussy everyone has gotten after 9/11. All of a sudden, we’re suppose to throw everything we value out the window in the name of “fighting terror”?? How far does it go? Are 19 year old farm boys that can’t afford college the only people that should be willing die for our personal liberties? All of a sudden we have this “do whatever you need to do… just don’t let them hurt me” attitude that is just so pussy it makes me puke.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Not to mention… the most pussy of all people were no where near NYC or DC on 9/11. Also, what percentage of country songs are about America? I was driving from Orange County to LA today and there is a shit load of country on the radio. The lyrics are incredible.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 pm
more like the best video on youtube. i don’t know who this guy is but he was on tv 25 years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJC4Sc2hJug&feature=channel
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 pm
epic vid right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOC7NZsRLjo&feature=channel.
look at his computer monitor. looks like he’s using windows 95.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 pm
i would hope that everyone can agree that if there’s imminent danger and you know somebody has info, that you’re going to do whatever the fuck it takes to get that info. i mean jesus. it’s called getting the job done. “sorry boss, he won’t give it up. i guess 50,000 people are going to die now. oh well.” i guess some people just fail at their jobs and are cool with that. how could you not do everything in your power to protect life? i guess some people say values are more important than life. I say you’re already dead so shut your mouth.
of course, it should be a last resort. and it should only occur when there’s enough intel to know that the guy is withholding info. and the potential danger caused by not gaining that information would have to be deemed grave. but who knows, maybe it’s ridiculous to ever think that a single interrogation could be so crucial to the safety of innocent lives. Maybe all the intel we’re gaining is crap. If that’s the case, then I drop my argument.
but if you think this administration won’t torture if necessary, you’re naive. sure, they won’t do it as much or with a smile on their face like Bush did, but it’s still a necessary tactic in extreme situations.
April 24th, 2009 at 5:38 am
yes, the majority of the intel we receive from human sources is generally crap. an army intel guy I used to work with said that in Iraq, people would basically use the US army against their competitors (business, bangin the wife, etc.) and say, “oh yeah, that dude down the street’s a terrorist” just to have the US do their dirty work and get rid of people they didn’t like.
on top of that, intel officers in the field work on quotas and are required to generate a certain number of reports in a period of time.
there are a LOT more fucked-up intel stories I’ve heard, but those two enough should kind of paint the picture that human intelligence gathering isn’t as useful, effective, or validated as you might assume it was.
April 24th, 2009 at 9:02 am
I’m all for torture. It makes sense. If someone is trying to kill 50,000 as guy suggested and he has info that could stop said killing, then do whatever it takes to get that info.
of course, to wu’s point, there is a lot of bad intel out there so you have to pick your spots, but if “america” is wrong after they tortured someone, its ok, just throw money at them. that is how you solve problems.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAGt0aAtw0